2010 Space Symposium - Session 9: Opportunities to Expand International Collaboration - Moving Forward Together in Partnership

By Moderator: Maj. Gen. Edward Bolton, Jr. | Omaha, Neb. | Nov. 3, 2010

MR. GANDY: … Let's get our first panel going this morning. It's Opportunities to Expand International Collaboration, Moving Forward Together in Partnership. This panel will be moderated by Major General Edward Bolton, Jr. General Bolton is the director of Cyber and Space Operations at Headquarters of the United States Air Force, Air Force A3.

This panel will discuss future cooperation opportunities and current challenges and introduce initiatives for information and data sharing amongst partnership. What a great panel to start us off this morning, and General Bolton, sir, we welcome you to the stage.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Good morning. Come on. Guten tag, moshi moshi, bonjour, good morning, good morning.

This is a very important and appropriate day to have an international panel. On this day in history, as you historians probably know, Columbia declared its Independence, Panama declared its Independence from Columbia, the Opium War started between Great Britain and China. And of course, on this day in history, Harry Truman held above his head a newspaper that said “Dewey Defeats Truman”. So this has been a day in history in which change has been obvious.

So welcome to this panel. If you really think of where we are today from an international perspective, this is a perfect time to have this panel. We're in a time of transition. The rules that have governed the international nation's state system and our relationships that were established starting in Westphalia are evolving. The transition of power from nation states to non-state actors is well underway. And I would argue that that's a time in which international engagement is ever more important.

Here in the United States we have a new space policy, signed in June, and led by some folks at this very table, good morning, sir. We are in the process of determining how to implement that space policy. And so we have four outstanding citizens from foreign entities who are going to talk a little bit about space international engagement.

First, Brigadier General Arnaud, who is the commander of the French Joint Space Command. He is a fighter pilot, test pilot, and again, commander of the new space command. Welcome air brigadier general.

Secondly, Brigadier General Martin Schelleis. He is assistant chief of staff for Concept and Operations in the Air Staff of the Federal Ministries of Defense, fighter bomber pilot as well. Good morning.

Air Commodore Jan van Hoof from NATO. He is the assistant director of Capabilities in the Joint Airpower Competence Center in Germany. Welcome.

And we have Director Hirotaka Nose, who is the director VMD [Virtual-channel Multiplexer and Distributor] Office and Space Policy Office. I'm going give each good morning, moshi moshi.

I'll give each gentleman an opportunity to chat, eight to ten minutes, and then we'll be delighted to take questions. Sir, the floor is yours.

BRIG. GEN. ARNAUD: Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Thank you, General, for giving me the opportunity to express myself again in this forum. Last year, I was just starting in the space business. Today, I'm pleased to say that my knowledge is much better. Unfortunately, my French accent is exactly the same. So I'm very pleased to take part in this panel.

I'll be discussing future cooperation opportunities. I will focus my short presentation on cooperation opportunities for France based on our current situation in space assets, principles applicable to cooperation, and possible future. I will conclude this presentation by a few reminders. Next slide, please.

On this chart, you can see all the current major space assets used by the French armed forces. You will easily remark, we don't hesitate to rely on cooperation to enhance our national capacities through operational cooperation agreements through MOU or program cooperation.

Moreover, some space assets used by the Ministry of Defense are not military and are solely the outcome of a long-lasting cooperation between space agencies, such as Jason, which is the fruit of cooperation between NASA and [inaudible]. Next slide.

Since this panel raises the question of cooperation, the very question would then be, why is it important or necessary to cooperate, or in other words, what is our interest for cooperation? There are certainly many good reasons to develop cooperation within our community. It is a political demand to preserve and reinforce the links between allies through cooperation.

It is our common interest to reinforce the capabilities by adding partners, assets or sources. It is our shared responsibility to coordinate the use of different assets in order to gain superiority in operations.

And, last but not least, when we need a capacity which is unaffordable to us financially, technically or industrially, then cooperation becomes a [inaudible] condition.

With respect to military space programs and as far as France is concerned, there are two major frames of cooperation. The [inaudible] frame allows some nations to cooperate with France on specific programs. Helios is the best example of this kind of cooperation. It is a 15-year-old program developed within a five-nation community plus Germany today.

Within NATO and Europe, the frame is less flexible because of the number of nations. With NATO, I have two examples the U.S. GPS was used [inaudible] is granted to NATO forces by MOU and the NATO SATCOM post-2003that involves the French military SATCOM system [inaudible].

Within Europe the frame is even different because the treaty states that the military assets of the European Union belong to the member states. The EU has not developed military assets already. Nevertheless, the European Union operates the EU satellite center that conducts imagery analysis and interpretation in support of the EU operations. For instance, in Chad and Sudan, all on so many coasts.

This being said, the other side of the cooperation must not be idle. Most often if cooperation allows us to gain capacities, it may conduct to a sharing of sovereignty or a partial loss of sovereignty on assets. It may increase our dividends as well and then decrease our autonomous capacity of action, but it must never hinder our ability of self-situation analysis and decision making.

We certainly are all aware of this problem. This is why we should consider the full spectrum of outcomes and accept compromises between capacities and sovereignty prior committee and cooperation programs. Next slide.

I have reminded you of the current situations and a few general principles. Let me tell you about the future. Our three main future programs commissioning our capacity are observation, SSA and eavesdropping. These three programs are open to cooperation within different frames in each case.

Firstly, regarding observation, the future observation system, MUSIS, is an ongoing process based on optical and radar satellites. The French optical space component has already started. This component is open to a cooperation based on the historical Helios community.

Secondly, regarding SSA, the upgrading of our current capacities ground radar will become necessary after the end of the current decade. In this time frame, the operational use of this capacity has to be recognized. Both the current operational aspect and the future capacity are open to cooperation. It is based on a bilateral basis with both Germany and the U.S., and on a wider one for the future within the initiative of the European Space Agency and the will of the European institutions. With regard to the last two frames, ESA and EU, our biggest concern is with respect of the national security demands and the implementation of a proper data policy and governance by the future system. It is absolutely clear for France that the [inaudible -phenom] condition for even the very first SSA [inaudible] as a development.

Lastly, regarding eavesdropping, the future of CERES [Clouds and the Earth's Radiant Energy System] capacity is also open to cooperation. But in this case, we draw specific attention due to the sensitiveness of the operational outcomes of such a system. Next slide.

As a conclusion, I will say that cooperation in space military programs is for France's frame that tends to become mandatory due to the increase of cost and the complexity of systems. In my mind, a successful cooperation must be balanced between the financing rates and the outcomes; efficient in terms of schedule cost and performance; capability driven and not technology or industry driven; and above all, built on trust with partners. I will need to insist on the last point, without trust, even if we share the same goals, cooperation can never be effective. Thank you for your attention.

BRIG. GEN. SCHELLEIS: General Chilton, sir, ladies and gentlemen, it's a sincere pleasure for me to give you some information on the German space program. Obviously with an emphasis on the military part, and it's worthwhile to be mentioned because traditionally and also for the foreseeable future, German space activities will be mainly civilian.

But as you can take from this slide -- and I suppose that's the same for all nations represented in this hall -- the current operations and even routine operation of the Bundeswehr would not be thinkable without space infrastructure services. Clearly PNT, but also space-based ISR. And General Arnaud already mentioned the cooperation we are having with the French. Germany is operating the Synthetic Aperture Radar Lupe system, and the French lead Helios system the optical side, we are closely cooperating thus allowing … not having to have redundant capabilities, Germany is concentrating on radar whereas France is concentrating on optical satellites.

C2 capability, we just placed the second communication satellite in orbit, and you can take from the lower left, if you can see it on the screen, the coverage of those two satellites is not complete with the Earth's surface, but most of the likely operational areas for the Bundeswehr are covered.

And last but not least, geological information met the formatting of precision targeting. We either take our own products or we purchase them, for instance, through the EU satellite center. Next slide, please.

As mentioned before, military operations even looking at the government as a whole are just a small part of all the activities. You can see security-related operations and activities, all the surveillance police operations, but also environmental survey and observation.

So clearly from this slide there's the need to be taken to govern this and regulate this. And surprisingly enough, although Germans normally love to organize everything so far in terms of space, we are not very well organized. Next slide, please.

You can see an array of papers that should go into the direction. The first one is the German space program from 2003 or '04. That is merely a list of all the activities of Germany, but not addressing the real necessary comprehensive approach.

More so the European space policy, two years old, which already addresses the strategic dimension of space. And finally I would like to say as a military planner, military operator, we are developing our national space policy that is in the final stages of starting. So we are confident that it will be issued in the foreseeable future, and this will really not only look at scientific and commercial use but also address security issues which are very necessary. Next slide, please.

Yesterday there was a panel extensively discussing the hazards and threats from or for our space infrastructure, so I don't have to carry to elaborate on that again. Next click, please.

And in view of the growing essential importance or dependence on the space-based products, there's clearly a need to do something about those hazards and threats. Next click, please.

The first thing on this as well has already been addressed extensively. The first thing you need is situational awareness of what's happening, not just the things you can see but also the intentions and the holistic understanding of the situation. So the first theme for us now, the biggest priority, is to establish a space situational awareness by establishing a center. Next slide, please.

And we do want to do this, and take my word. I believe it was Mr. Rose from the State Department yesterday who advocated an open architecture from the onset, so that's what we want to do when building our space situational awareness center. We want to mimic a model that is already successfully implemented for our surveillance and air/space integrity. It's not just a military issue. It's also a Ministry of the Interior and Ministry of Transport. And those three ministries are already working closely in the interagency organization, and that's what we want to also take as a blueprint for the space situational awareness center.

You can see on the very right, the Federal Ministry of Economics and Technology, this might be surprising. But looking at the civilian emphasis of the German space activities might not. This is our lead in the government for all space activities. So they will be invited to join also further ministries in the future. So from the onset, an interagency approach on the national side.

You can see the blue box to the top left corner, different data from government sources but also from external sources channel the process in this space situational awareness center and the added value shall be products like information, but also recommendations to take corrective action versus the space threats and hazards.

You can see depicted the TIR radar, the Tracking and Imaging Radar, which is operated in Germany by the Hanover Research Institute. It's fairly old but still very capable tracking radar. It's proven its operational relevance, and we are looking into ways of further exploiting this great capability as an asset. Next please.

Looking now at the international cooperation, it's not just interagency joined nationally, but from the onset it's supposed to be collaboratively international cooperation. You can see the close cooperation already established with the French and their space situational awareness center. And as General Arnaud already pointed out, the EU, or let's say Europe, is a player in space already, although it is not quite clear what role and what responsibilities the different agencies/offices in the EU will become. But clearly they will play a role.

And of course, we are more than interested to build on a trustful relationship with the Americans with your space situational awareness architecture and other institutions. Maybe NATO will have to play a role. You all know that in the next -- I think two weeks time, there will be the NATO Summit and most probably there will be one, in one way or the other, an address to space, most probably to missile defense and, of course, there's a certain link to space. So NATO will find a role possibly also in that respect.

And lastly mention -- last but least to mention, other nations, for instance Japan, but again, I want to come back to Mr. Rose who yesterday mentioned that even with China, the United States on a bilateral basis, they do not always agree and the policies do not always match, but there's sure room for overlapping interests. So there's room for some kind of cooperation. So that is our idea of building our space situational awareness system from the onset to a joint combined interagency. Next and last slide.

This network is easily drawn, but there are clearly some challenges that make it at least challenging. The data policy issues is the biggest problem to be overcome most probably because if you want to cooperate with more than one partner, it's getting complex which data you need to keep for national sovereignty reasons, which data can you share with other partners. And it's like onion skin architecture--Easily said, but difficult to be drawn.

Dual use issues, it's for me as a military officer a very positive development in Germany that the reluctance to accept military as a partner is diminishing. And there is more and more interest from the other government but also from commercial operators for making use of dual use, so something we want to work.

Clearly vulnerability of space and ground segments, that is a big challenge that has been discussed here, so I don't need to elaborate.

Space traffic management, it's not just that debris is flying around but also the increasing density of traffic calls for some kind of rules and regulations.

So final conclusion, you can only be successful to tackle these issues in an international and interagency coordination, and Germany is very willing to do our part in that respect. Thank you very much.

AIR COMMANDER VAN HOOF: General Chilton, distinguished audience, it's for me a privilege to be here again as General Arnaud sitting at this international panel also last year. And last year I focused on assessments, the Joint Air Power Competence Center roads and which had the title, Time to Address Space in NATO.

I think I can fortunately say that my address here today is NATO is addressing space, and I want to talk a bit about that.

Before I do that, there's one caveat I must mention, that although I'm the NATO representative, that's not completely true. You must understand that the Joint Air Power Competence Center is a center of excellence established in 2005 by 17 nations, and it's actually an advisory body to NATO and to its sponsoring nations. So it's actually outside the formal command structure, and as such, I present views from the JAPCC which are not, by definition, the formal NATO policy.

But we find more and more that the ideas we produce over the years thinking about space find approval at NATO headquarters and also at our sponsoring nations.

The space assessment two years ago had one of the bigger issues. The biggest obstacle of integrated space within NATO is lack of understanding and awareness of the importance of space. That's a rather harsh assessment, but we did that because we found that the will to address space, within a consensus organization of 28, was the will to find consensus was not really there. It was lacking.

But in my perspective now looking back, things have changed. Things have changed a lot since we wrote that assessment. First of all, we need to understand that NATO does not own space capabilities. I cannot show you pictures of constellations of capabilities which NATO has on the SATCOM side, some capabilities, but they have to have that for some time now.

So although NATO does not have those capabilities, NATO is at the same time drifting more and more towards greater reliance on space capability. That's not new, but the awareness of that is getting through the organization as a whole.

And for example, as just mentioned also, at the upcoming NATO Summit in Lisbon later this month, the alliance is anticipating to make a real major decision regarding European missile defense. This mission area will require if you look at upper tier systems, missile defense system will require space capabilities for warning, for surveillance, command and control, timing and force synchronization.

And there have been developments that may improve NATO's ability to capitalize on that domain. So recently in the NATO air defense committee or air defense committee as it's now called, they asked the JAPCC to prepare a presentation on implications of space for NATO integrated air missile defense. And this briefing was designed to find this committee, air defense committee, relevant points to consider when discussing the role of space capabilities in future integrated air and missile defense.

And although in my personal view, I don't think the air defense committee should be the committee to lead all space developments, it's a start where a committee takes initiative to start thinking of space requirements in the broader field of integrated air and missile defense. And I think those interests could spur larger changes within NATO itself.

And areas of interest, especially for this body, is insight in space capabilities which enable to contribute to this integrated air missile defense operations and also assessing potential level of degradation if it would not have those capabilities. So there's a start and a mindset to look at space as a capability which also requires thought in a sense of as we put in our assessment also a policy, a strategy, doctrine maybe in the future and maybe even in space program. But when I say that, I do not mean capabilities and hardware itself but a program how to better utilize capabilities the 28 nations actually have.

Another development I should mention is the work going on in Allied Command Transformation, ACT, in Norfolk. ACT has identified space as an area really to address as part of global commons initiative, an initiative that aims to identify vulnerabilities and challenges affecting assured access to the global commons. You might not like that word but what we're talking about is the domain of air, space, cyberspace and maritime domain.

And the problems associated with emerging hybrid threats and weak or failing states are well known as central features in today's wars. But less obvious are the growing challenges to the alliance, powers and influence that are associated with how we preserve and use global commons. They term that connective tissue of the international security.

Ensuring relative stability throughout there remains an alliance concern, and there's a growing consensus that rising states and state powers combined with continuous globalization will put great pressure on the international system as a whole.

So ACT is addressing these commons in space in specific, and this initiative is seen as foundation for free and fair access to a vibrant, global economy.

To assist, the ACT hosted a workshop not too long ago, two weeks ago, to identify the vulnerabilities and challenges affecting the ACT to space and NATO and make recommendations for NATO's way ahead. So it's on the agenda. Specifically I don't have the answers here yet, but specifically we were addressing five questions. What are NATO's stakes in the space commons? Before you make policy, those questions have to be answered. How does NATO assure its access to space systems to conduct operations in support of alliance security at home as well as out of area operations. And what are the current challenges to that access?

But also, how can NATO's operational access to space-based systems be strengthened in the future? Or at this policy on a strategic level, what could NATO do to strengthen its future ability to secure access to space-based systems? And also a very important one which you hear in several discussions already, how can a comprehensive approach, integrated government, commercial and military effort help the alliance assure access to space systems? A lot of questions which are now under investigation which in the end have to formulate the policy NATO is still going on with when we talk about space. And of course, not only in the space area but also in the other commons, these kinds of questions will be addressed.

So this initiative has the potential to impact long-term strategic thinking in NATO, and ACT is specifically charged to make concrete implementable recommendations. So what I mentioned last year, that where's the drive to go forward, I think I can say that what I see from where I stand and what we've been doing, we're pushing, we're being supporting has actually happening.

And this preliminary report will be submitted to General Abrial prior to the Lisbon summit at the end of this month. And will not have all those questions and answers on space, but it will address the global commons as a whole.

And the next step will be that General Abrial will deliver the final report April of next year. That's in six months. So I'm really looking forward and NATO and the nations are really looking forward to a first formal document, not from an advisory body but now from the think tank headquarters ACT itself.

And the initiatives which are ongoing in this field do not only cover discussions among NATO nations but General Abrial also foresees dialogue and workshops with Brazil, Russia, India, China to gain a complete perspective as possible on the matter.

And the JAPCC was particularly well suited to assist the global commons initiative, as you well know, with the initiative of building this assessment, which by the way a large part of that was written by a lieutenant colonel now sitting in this hall, former SME of the JAPCC, and I just want to mention his name, Lieutenant Colonel Tom Single, who did a great job to get this on the road. So Tom, thanks again.

And it actually addressed the major issues to establish space office, and we're sitting also in the discussions with NATO now that there is the need to establish something like a NATO space office, but also to draft that NATO space policy which is so important to move forward, to develop the capability roadmap. And again, not specifically a capability roadmap in the sense of hardware constellations and what have you, but a roadmap which makes, as we do with a lot of other capabilities, the NATO nations provide and bring to the table to make the most effective use of the capabilities which are there and which can be used by the 28 nations.

And last but not least, I think it's one of the things which should come first as establishing cadre of NATO space experts. The human dimension I think must be addressed in the sense that the NATO forces at the moment are not properly organized, trained and equipped to integrate, utilize and conduct space operations. We have the awareness and the knowhow and the dos and don'ts and have knowledge of that. So NATO must treat space the same as it treats other domains, and especially in this area at the moment that is in my organization one of the main focuses is to see how that can be put on the road.

And as I listened to a very interesting panel discussion on training and exercise, modeling and simulations yesterday, we're just at a start within NATO with I think something like five, six, seven space specialists, formal positions in NATO, with an organization of something like 11, 12,000, decreasing to 8,950 I think it will be in the coming years.

There is really a need to start to have a bottom-up approach of having nations and also within the NATO construct itself a space expertise in there so that the discussion can be a professional discussion with, of course, support with the 28 nations.

This short outline shows that NATO is moving ahead. NATO is moving ahead with space. But there are also a lot of challenges there and it's as General Abrial once also mentioned, it's an incremental approach, it's step by step. But as we have always pushed -- should be a bottom up and a top down approach to make that happen, to get the young officers in there at different levels also on the national side to support the space effort and make the most of the effective use of the existing capabilities which are out there. That I think is key. Nations individually or collectively cannot do that. That has to be cooperation and cooperation is a must in that sense.

And with that I would like to stop here. I'm fairly interested in discussion further during this session. Thank you.

MR. NOSE: It's my honor to be here today and to speak in front of so distinguished people. Now, I would like to talk briefly about Japan's development and use of space. Next slide, please.

First, I would like to debate the recent progress in our space policy. Japan becomes a R&D for space utilization called as a [inaudible] project in 1955 and launched its first satellite in 1970s, which was the first satellite launched in the world. Since then, in the [inaudible] field, the use of space has been making steady progress, including a [inaudible] Japanese astronaut to stay in the ISS and so on.

However, in the military field, Japan's use of space had been destructed for a long time. It was because [inaudible] had adopted a resolution in 1969 stipulating that the use of space should be [inaudible] for the peaceful purposes only. But as the user [inaudible] grew larger in various commercial areas, the need by self-defense force to use satellite became authorized. As a result, in 1980, Japan eased our restriction by releasing a new policy statement saying that could use satellite which is commonly used in the commercial market such as communication satellite and [inaudible] satellites.

Since then, the SDF has utilized satellites in various areas such as communication with information gathering. In 2008, the basic space road was enacted, and accordingly basic ground for space policy was formulated. The basic ground for space policy as a [inaudible] Japanese comprehensive space strategy, and there are two major points I want to emphasize guiding the law under the plan.

First, new Japan space program is shifting its focus from R&D to space utilization. Second, Japan's use of space is putting emphasis on national security. And the Article 3 of the basic space [inaudible] stipulates that utilization of outer space must be conducted in order to contribute to Japan's national security. Next, please.

I would like to introduce some topics about Japan's use of space. First one is Quasi-Zenith Satellite System (QZSS). The first satellite called the Michibiki was launched last September. This satellite is for PNT system and comparable with GPS satellites.

Now technical experiments have been conducted to find possible applications in the commercial sector. In addition, the project team which consists of members or related ministries was established. This team will make addition about the further launch of QZSS satellites by the end of next year.

In addition, since the orbital satellite covers not only East Asia but also the South Eastern Asia and Oceania, this system may create an opportunity of international cooperation in this region. Next, please.

The second topic is about DAICHI and advanced land observing satellite. This satellite was launched in January 2006 and has been utilized for map making, situational awareness in natural disasters and so on. This satellite equipped with various types of sensors called PRISM PALSER [Phased Array type L-band Synthetic Aperture Rader] has conducted about 50 immediate observations of natural disasters such as earthquake by cyclone and collected the data that was utilized by the [inaudible] organizations.

Now, I'd like to talk some details about the MOD's actions when they formulated the basic guidelines for development and use of space in January last year. The basic concept of the guideline is the use of space is a very effective tool for strengthening the SDF C4ISR functions. And also these guidelines include policies and programs in such areas as information gathering, warning, [inaudible] and communication. One of our ongoing programs is research on SSA in which we are studying the possibility of effective use of SDF radar system for SSA.

Currently in Japan, JAXA [Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency] has had some capability for SSA by using their telescopes and radars. There are some challenges for SSA. For example, how to coordinate SSA mission with [inaudible] mission of air defense, how to share the acquired information with relevant organizations and so on. Anyway, at the first stage, we are studying that technical prosperity on utilization of radar system for SSA. Next page, please.

Finally, I would like to explain the future pace. Our office is now deliberating on near future missions and programs for space utilization in this area, as far as government is rating the national defense program guidelines which stipulate the basic laws and postures of the SDF.

In August, the Council on Security and Defense Capabilities in the New Era issued a report which is important material for government to review the national defense program guidelines by the end of this year. This report points out [inaudible] to openness over the global commons including space, the importance of the enforcement of ISR activities and SSA at mid-term or long-time challenge and so on. Next, please.

Considering our new national defense guidelines under the [inaudible] defense program, we have three essential viewpoints about the SDF space utilization in the near future.

First, the SDF has utilized the space and satellites in various areas since 1980s but has depended on the commercial sector and the U.S. very much. So it believes that the most important thing is to acquire and accumulate knowledge and the know-how about space utilization through strengthening cooperation with the other various advanced organizations, including the U.S. Air Force.

Secondly, the SDF should strengthen its [inaudible] function through space utilization which is essential to catch up with technological innovation.

Third, international cooperation in [inaudible] and EU's code of conduct contributes to build a framework for use of space. The space asset in post-military operations and commercial activities are increasing. The international committee is facing many challenges as preserving the space environment including space debris program, space traffic management and so on.

This is all my presentation. Thank you very much.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much. Gentlemen, thank you very much for those perspectives. I know we asked you to send up questions but let me ask, is anyone here old enough to know what this means? Anyone? Anyone? Karnac. Okay. Karnac. Generational issue.

We had to predict what questions you might ask and give them to them in advance just to level the playing field from any language challenges. I'm going to give, if you don't mind, some of our prepared questions. And then if you have some hard ones, if we have any time over, then maybe some of the ones who are a little better in English may want to take a crack at those.

I will just start here and work our way down. Sir, what do you see as the current future of your space program? And I know you just briefed it, but what would you like to add?

BRIG. GEN. ARNAUD: I already mentioned during my presentation the three main domains we are expecting for about optical observation, about SSA and about eavesdropping. I can add some domain regarding the radar imagery. We expect to continue cooperation with Germany, of course, as we do today with [inaudible] and we expect to continue with Italy, with COSMO-SkyMed program. About communications, we already launched two programs SYRACUSE] and [inaudible]. [Inaudible] is dedicated to our robust communication, and it will arrive in complement of SYRACUSE capacity and [inaudible] will be used for [inaudible] high bandwidth and used for communication. So as you can observe, we try to achieve a panel of capacity as much as possible.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you, sir. Sir, would you like to take a crack at the same question, anything to add on the future of current space programs in your country?

BRIG. GEN. SCHELLEIS: Absolutely. As I already pointed out in my presentation, there's a growing comprehensive approach forming in Germany which is great from a military perspective. The working relationships between the different engaged ministries are good and even intensifying, and they will result in a holistic approach I believe in our national space strategy. Also, I already alluded on the diminishing reluctance to accept a more active role of the military for security reasons. And I can say that the [inaudible] for the [inaudible] and for the government as a whole is accepted as the one agency to provide the space situational awareness capability of Germany as a contribution to the international modular system to be established.

This more comprehensive approach also allows Germany to more coherently approach international cooperation which is quite helpful, I believe, because in the past it was difficult for some of the ladies and gentlemen in the audience to find someone in Germany to talk to because still no less than 22 different branches of the MOD alone are dealing in one way or the other with space, so that's quite complicated for external but even for internal. And this ,this is going to improve.

Militarily, the big emphasis is on the space situational awareness but also on the follow-on system of our synthetic aperture radar Lupe. It's fairly new, but you have to think in advance, and we want to continue as General Arnaud said, the good cooperation also with the partners by making use of our strengths in synthetic aperture radar technology is clearly German's strength.

The same is true for optical communications and we -- although I said we just fired up the second or launched the second communications satellite, we are looking into ways of expanding the bandwidth for better capacities by building on this second German strength laser-based communication. So these are the main points of emphasis.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much. Continuing on that same theme of sharing space situational awareness information which was something that was talked about yesterday, Air Commodore van Hoof, would you like to talk [to us] about the biggest obstacles overcome in sharing with space situational awareness information or information in general?

AIR COMMANDER VAN HOOF: Let me say that it's very easy to say that there is a mindset that we should go from must to will sharing of information. There has been within NATO different domains within the military actually. We have had this problem -- problem -- which we overcome. So a sharing of information as mentioned before has a lot to do with trust.

But looking at NATO itself, we have different areas within NATO, within alliances as a whole where we have the same situation. And we have to overcome that in a sense that there -- that a sharing of information will be possible.

So sometimes I have the feeling that we put space as a specific area wherein other areas, the maritime domain, the air domain we have already through the years came up with solutions.

So let's look at how we figure out how that worked, how we share the information. And NATO has been doing that for over six years now to get nations to exchange information to make an alliance work, and I think that's the only way an alliance could work when there's trust and when there's sharing of information.

Sometimes I think that this is subject, it should have the attention it requires. But let's look at how we did it in other areas where it also was difficult to start off with. But at the moment, soldiers are in the field, we see that there are solutions. Sometimes these solutions are, okay, we're only going to deal with these five, six nations for that kind of mission. So there are a lot of possibilities there, and I wouldn't block that discussion by saying it's impossible because I think there are a lot of possibilities.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much, sir. Director Nose, would you like to take a shot at that same question on sharing of space situational information or information sharing in general?

MR. NOSE: We are studying SSA. I guess that the most challenging point is how can most countries and organizations have various capabilities for spatial awareness cooperate with each other? That is, from technical viewpoint that challenges how to [inaudible] various [inaudible] information from various organizations into meaningful useful database that is welcomed.

Second point is from political or administer the viewpoint that probing how much cost it takes if the countries or organizations be a [inaudible] for SSA information sharing projects. And moreover, if some assets for SSA should be collateral for military purposes, another challenge is how to protect the secret integration of capabilities of such collateral assets.Anyway, I think it indispensable for cooperate with each other to address such cooperation step by step.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much. Sir, we'd appreciate your thought on that same question and then you, sir.

BRIG. GEN. ARNAUD: I think we have many things to protect within the field of SSA. I think we have to protect orbital data for our governmental sensitive space objects. We have to protect knowledge of maneuvers of our space object in the field of intelligence or military operation. I think we have to protect our know-how, such as [inaudible] or radar techniques. I think we have to protect our assets.

So we have many things to protect. And as I mentioned during my presentation, we have to implement very secure data policy before starting any cooperation within the European initiative or within the field of cooperation in the bilateral field.

So I don't see any technical obstacle for cooperation in the field of SSA. I see process. I see a network. I see securings. We have achieved to start cooperation. The only obstacle I identify could be very old minds still living in the past and refusing any cooperation by principle.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much.

BRIG. GEN. SCHELLEIS: I'd like to pick up this last point. It's a challenge, clearly, and there's no doubt each sovereign nation needs to have a set of data where you want to protect the integrity, there's no doubt about. But it's a mindset going away from a need-to-know to need-to-share attitude. So the issue should be to try to minimize the data you need really to keep for your own and to maximize the data information that can be shared with others.

And speaking from the experience of my own nation, this is helpful, first of all, to come to grips with your own activities and come up with a coherent policy nationally because it makes it much easier for partners to cooperate.

And the big issue is the number and diversity of actors' interests, standard interoperability issues and so on that make it so complicated. So get your national ideas together, and then it will be much more helpful to identify overlapping interests.

And I believe that NATO, for instance, could build on the experience of working or acting as a clearinghouse, as a forum for trying to identify requirements and harmonize them and interoperability that could be very helpful.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much for that articulate response. I guess Air Commodore van Hoof, one of the things we're working on as we're trying to understand how to expand internationally is the concept of codes of conduct and norms on behavior in space. And I'd be very interested and I'm sure some people in the audience would be very interested in the NATO perspective on the concept of codes of conduct and norms of behavior in space.

AIR COMMANDER VAN HOOF: Thank you for that one. As I explained in my opening remarks, still working on its policy and its concept of what's going space, and that's one. Two, NATO is 28 nations. Things like codes of conduct and norms of behavior are issues which every nation has to come to grips with. And then it becomes something which NATO can work on.

But the same line I took when we talked about sharing of information and especially in the field of SSA, there are also in this area areas where we decide collectively how are we going to go forward. We have international laws in that sense which we then as the 28 nations go by. So in that sense I think it's not a -- first of all, not a NATO question but more [of] what the 28 nations are looking at.

Rules of engagement are also a set of codes of conduct which we have been working with. So the construct, how to work with things like that is well established within NATO, but again, it's also a national policy to dictate which way we should be going.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Very well said. Thank you very much. Director Nose, I'd be very interested in understanding if there are any specific space programs in which your country would like to cooperate with the United States.

MR. NOSE: It is possible for our country to cooperate with the U.S. and international community, very cursory in order to secure freedom of use of outer space as global commons.

For example, there is some possibility to work together in the field such as COPUOS and with regard to sort of like EU's code of conduct. And in addition, I personally think it is very desirable if Japan can make some contribution to SSA as an international cooperation.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you. Thank you very much. Sir, I'm interested on information you might have on codes of conduct in space.

BRIG. GEN. ARNAUD: I think the answer is very simple. France fully endorsed code of conduct, and so the EU concept endorsed as a code of conduct too during French resiliency of EU in 2008. So now we hope that all of the countries, nations involved in space operation will endorse this code of conduct too.


BRIG. GEN. SCHELLEIS: You can imagine that for Germans it's harmful that something is not regulated, so -- but that's not really the issue.

Germany has been an active contributor in the -- also very much in support of a set of rules and regulations looking at the density of traffic and the hazards emanating from space, and there should be a clear understanding of how to regulate that in order to safeguard the availability of this global commons.

From a military perspective, these rules and regs that should be involved should not hinder the protection of national sovereignty that's clear, also not jeopardize sensitive data, and also be flexible enough to allow for the implementation of future technologies.

So the set of rules should be fairly flexible but there should be one. So Germany is very much in support of the ongoing activities to deliver this set of rules.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much. I'll come back to France and say would you like to say anything at all on the specific programs that you're very interested in working with the United States on?

BRIG. GEN. ARNAUD: For us, definitely SSA. I listened to General John James yesterday. I think we have [inaudible] SSA a very large cooperation. And I am sure that we have gathered all the assets in order to provide the best space situation. So definitely SSA is the best program for cooperation with U.S.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you, sir. And for Germany, what specific opportunities exist for foreign space-related industries or cooperation with your country's industries?

BRIG. GEN. SCHELLEIS: Apparently I'm not a representative of industry and also neither am I a representative of the federal ministry of economics. But from a strategic perspective, of course, it's also for military important that our country keeps certain key capabilities and we can build on some leading technologies I would say. Especially smaller companies in Germany are known for their competence in synthetic aperture radar, for instance. I mentioned already the laser-based communication bit.

But in addition to that, and this will be also expressed in the new national space policy, robotics. We want to build on the strength in that respect. We do not want because we cannot afford to cover the whole spectrum, so there's a lot of interest from Germany for bi and multilateral international cooperation. I think we have to bring something to the table but be very open, of course, to participate with others building on those strengths.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much. Gentlemen, we have a few minutes left, and I guess I'll start with Director Nose and ask you if you have any final comments you would like to make. If you do not, that's fine. Do you have any final additional comments?

MR. NOSE: In Japan use of space is immature, but we recognize the common issues about SSA and space debris program. We are going to make an effort to contribute to such international issues. Thank you very much.

AIR COMMANDER VAN HOOF: Looking into -- well, maybe a wish as General Chilton also has several of them, as I mentioned I think the bottom up, top down approach is one which NATO should be leading more and more. From the bottom up, we're at the JAPCC working, our director, General Brady, was also Commander USAFE and also Commander CC-Air Ramstein as organizing a symposium next week in Ramstein, and we're talking about with the operators. NATO AOCs will be the subject of what we should be happening there, and we also heard yesterday on that side. So we're pushing that end.

And the top down approach is actually what ACT is doing, so I would wish to see, and hopefully this will happen, that ACT will as a first step start cooperation and collaboration with USSTRATCOM, for instance, which ends up -- and that's my wish, that next year there's a formal NATO representative of ACT or even from Brussels saying this is the NATO space policy. Thank you.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you very much. Sir?

BRIG. GEN. SCHELLEIS: I would like to thank General Chilton and his staff for the opportunity to participate in this conference, not so much as panelist but as a listener in the audience because it's a great experience to learn for us, for me.

And in a wider context, Germany very much appreciates the openness and the collaborative approach of the American strategic policy, I would say, that is calling for more international cooperation. We believe this is the way to go, and we are eagerly awaiting the political and data policy issues so that we can really start to work more closely. Thank you very much.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you, sir, very much. Sir?

BRIG. GEN. ARNAUD: I would like just to repeat two main things which were in the conclusion. I think cooperation becomes more and more mandatory for us in the next future, so the choice will be very simple. We'll have the choice between capabilities and cooperation or no capabilities. And the second point is that the cooperation has to be based on trust, trust between the different partners. And as conclusion I would like to thank General Chilton for this invitation and this opportunity for us to discuss in this presentation. Thank you very much.

MAJ. GEN. BOLTON, JR.: Thank you. Well, gentlemen, that was an outstanding summary of some very important issues. I would say for the audience, I did notice several themes: The importance of space situational awareness which is consistent with what we've talked about during this entire conference. I saw a willingness to continue the dialogue and discussion. I think an interest in some of the things we want to do in terms of codes of conduct.

And I also some optimism that we can solve these difficult problems by building on our previous relationship and building on how we solve these similar problems in areas like nuclear cooperation and those types of things.

But I also saw a charge for the leaders at the front table. General Chilton and Mr. Schulte, we need to now go sharpen our pencils and document some of those things we've been talking about. I think that our allies are looking for formally-documented policy strategy and doctrine that we can use as a foundation to build our relationship as we move forward in the future.

So gentlemen, thank you for your great work today. I want to thank General Chilton and the leadership team here and all of you for your time and attention, and have a great day.